Interviewee/ Yang Jing-Hao (Hao)、Ljaucu Tapurakac (Wu)、Meng Tzu En (En)
Interviewer/ Wang Yu Cheng (Coordinator of Text Records)
Translator/ Artist Translation Service 譯術家專業翻譯工作室
The chance to interview the three dancers of Tjimur Dance Theatre came the day after the sharing and exchange regarding the co-production. Like usual, the dancers arrived at the theatre early in the morning to clean the place. At this moment, this Taiwan-India exchange was about to end. The interviewer asked the dancers some questions about their body experiences with these works. Readers can read this transcript with the piece “Déjà Vu in the Memory " co-produced by Baru Madiljin as many elements from this exchange can be seen in this piece.
Q: Can you talk about your experiences regarding learning Odissi Dance?
Hao: In my opinion, I think the steps in Odissi Dance are especially difficult. The rhythms of the steps are complex enough, yet there are still upper-body movements to go with these steps, making the whole dance even more complex. We had to practice over and over again.
Wu: Take ballet for example, there are just five basic positions. However, in Odissi Dance, there are several different ways regarding how the foot touches the ground. And there are even more hand gestures. It was difficult for us to memorize the meaning of each hand gesture. Sometimes we just got confused (demonstrating a few hand gestures he had leaned). We tried to grasp as much as possible the simpler parts they taught us. If in the future we have a chance to go to India for further learning, probably we would be able to deliver these details better.
Wu: For me, ballet and Odissi Dance are very similar in the concept of body alignment. In ballet, the alignment is based on a cross and your body must move along the lines (making hand gestures before his chest). It is the same in Odissi Dance. Your body must face front. You probably need to move your waist, chest, or head. But you can’t move everything altogether. You must face front. Odissi Dance is as strict as ballet in this aspect. On the other hand, contemporary dance is more free in the way of expression.
En: Visually, Odissi Dance seems lopsided. Yet, it is about maintaining a kind of dynamic balance, with the center in the right place. For example, when we move our ribs, in order to keep balance, we must move our butt as well. Even though your posture is lopsided, it does not necessarily mean that you are off your center. On the contrary, other parts of your body would help you to maintain balance. This way, you would have a firm stand.
Q: I am curious about this body alignment or dynamic balance. Did Dakshaji tell you how to use your bodies? Or did you find out on your own that your bodies move more naturally this way?
En: Actually, after learning in India and coming back to Taiwan, I realized that Dakshaji wouldn’t tell you how to do a movement. She allows us to try and find out which way is better for us. She does not tell us what to do, but allows us to think instead. We work with our own bodies and we figure out how our bodies can adapt to this dancing skill.
Q: You did rehearsals for this co-production with the two choreographers separately. When you worked with different choreographers, the ways you used your muscles and body alignment must change accordingly. Can you talk about the challenges in this regard?
Hao: Actually, switching between the ways required by different choreographers was pretty easy. We are dancers. It’s our job to learn various dancing styles.
En: Although during rehearsals, sometimes our brains just froze. But we just needed more practices so that our bodies and muscles could memorize these steps. However, we had to always think clearly about the essence of each dancing style in order to lead our bodies to present that essence.
Q: Ljaucu, can you talk about a dance for two performers like a battle in the piece co-produced by Baru? How did you and Subrata did it? How did that happen?
Wu: During day time, we worked in teams of two people. In the process, we learned movements from each other. When I learned his steps, I asked myself to practice to perform in a more restrained way. I wanted to learn from them how to deliver messages through movements and facial expressions. It was not all about precision. In the process of this battle, you could see that Kaishiki dancers could perform their movements with details and precision. I know that when I perform in a contemporary dance piece, sometimes my performance is too unrestrained. For me, learning to perform in a more “restrained” way is very helpful.
Q: Every time when I saw that battle, I thought you almost frightened Subrata. Can you tell me more about it?
Wu: For me, it is more fun when the tough is confronted with toughness. (慈: They were serious in that battle.) I like to see you being fierce to me when I am fierce to you. This kind of atmosphere excites me. For example, at one moment, my upper body leaned forward as if I was going to scare her, and she responded with powerful strength.
Q: What about the battle between Jing-Hao and Namrata? The battle seemed rather restrained then others.
Hao: That probably had something to do with Baru’s choreography, as well as my personality. I prefer to “cooperate”. I liked to see our movements matched perfectly. We would come up with the design with both of us jumping up at the same time point. Namrata also came up with an idea of how to turn around smoothly with the music. I think we both preferred to make our movements very precise.
Q: What about the battle between Tzu-En and Siddhi? Did it look more like they were learning from each other?
En: That was the first time we rehearsed that section. Bara wanted us to practice in teams of two. The idea was to integrate Odissi Dance with our four-step dance to develop new combinations of movements. Then he would adjust the choreography to something new. Later he told us this attempt was like a battle. The result was presented in the end. In fact, Siddhi and I were a little bit stuck during the first day. When I went back home, I was still wondering why. I figured that it was probably because they were not familiar with the way we decomposed movements. Their movements were more like A→B→C→D with all the elements added up in that order. But in our dance, the order may be random. And Baru would decompose each element into even smaller sub-elements. You may go from A1 to B2 and then back to A3. They probably hadn’t worked with this kind of choreographer before. Therefore, I spent some time working this out with Siddhi. At first, it was difficult to do anything. Then we had some private discussions and things go smoother from there. I was thinking back then, “god, I hit the wall in the first international co-production I’ve ever participated.”
Q: Talking about hitting the wall, Ljaucu, can you talk about your foot injury in India?
Wu: I had an old foot injury. We didn’t know there wasn’t time for warming up. We were used to have a 15 or 20 minute warm-up time before classes. At first, we were not used to the way the classes just began like that. Their floor was a cement floor while ours was made of wood with higher elasticity. When you learn a new dance, before you know the tricks, you would just spend more efforts trying to learn. I was like that. I stepped really hard to feel those positions. In fact, in India when I performed, my foot really hurt. But I did my job as a professional dancer, I performed well. Then I went to see a doctor. However, this time when they visited Tjimur, I understood their steps more. Because I knew the exact positions, I could do better than just stepping hard to make sounds. They actually had many different ways to use their feet. I could release my tension while switching to different steps, instead just using my feet with all my strength.
Hao: I remember when we practiced chouka, it was like the plie in ballet. Practices of that movement always led to sore muscles. Moreover, we didn’t have time for warm-up in India, making the sore feeling even worse, especially in the inner thigh muscles as I shared with Namrata. And then, Dakshaji asked us to use the same muscles over and over for a even longer period of time. He probably wanted us to be more precise in our positions or just to experience how the training for Indian dancers was.
Wu: In ballet, the plie may just be a part of the process. But this chouka practice was all about doing the movement over and over until the muscles could no longer stand it.
En: It burned. It burned badly.
Wu: We learned the rain dance from Ljuzem Madiljin before. It was about squatting as well. But the experience was not as painful as practicing chouka. Chouka is truly a very low and deep movement. And we just practiced repeatedly.
Epilogue
Our interview was not long. Later, I asked about whether they exchanged some tips about how to use their bodies with the Kaishiki dancers. They were polite and told me that it takes time. They said that when they first joined Tjimur, they had been just like these dancers, having to re-adapt to a new physical style. Their responses pointed out the fact that it takes time for accumulating and settling when it comes to cultural and body-related exchanges. After the interview, they hurried back to work with their bodies again.